Wednesday, January 04, 2006

Disagreement Among Self-Described Atheists about the Meaning of "Atheism"

The "atheist" movement keeps shooting itself in the foot by failing to reach a consensus regarding the meaning of "atheism." Allow me to explain.

Individuals who label themselves an "atheist" can be somewhat simplistically[1] divided into (at least) two groups: (1) those who define "atheism" as the mere lack of belief in God, and (2) those who hold the positive belief that God does not exist. Individuals in group 1 include Antony Flew, George Smith, and Michael Martin. Individuals in group 2 include Theodore Drange, Quentin Smith, J.L. Schellenberg, and perhaps William Rowe and Michael Tooley.

"Group 1 atheists" could consistently say that "atheism" means the absence of god-belief and hold the positive belief that God does not exist. Michael Martin is an example of an atheist who does precisely this. On the other hand, "Group 1 atheists" could also consistently define "atheism" the way that they do and lack a belief in the non-existence of God. In other words, an individual in "group 1" might call herself an atheist, but not embrace any arguments for the non-existence of God, including the arguments from evil, reasonable nonbelief, physical minds, and so forth.

Group 1 atheists generally recognize members of group 2 as fellow atheists. Group 2 atheists, on the other hand, tend to say that being in group 1 doesn't automatically make someone an "atheist" (in the group 2 sense). On group 2's view, someone in group 1 could be an "atheist" (in the group 2 sense) but they also might not be an "atheist." It depends.

These distinctions matter because group 2 atheists may not feel represented by a group 1 atheist at all. From the perspective of a group 2 atheist, there is a big difference between someone who says, "I believe God does not exist on the basis of good/strong/conclusive evidence for God's nonexistence," and "I lack belief in both the existence and nonexistence of God." More to the point: this is the problem with Antony Flew, Kai Nielsen, and other group 1 atheists who have purported to represent "atheism" in public debates over God's existence. They are portrayed as defenders of "atheism" (in the group 2 sense, which is how the general public defines "atheism") even though they are not "atheists" in the group 2 sense and, most important, even though they do not defend any arguments for God's nonexistence. (This is not surprising to those who specialize in the philosophy of religion, since these individuals never claimed to hold the positive belief that God does not exist.)

Note

[1] For an approach to defining atheism that is both more sophisticated and I think ultimately correct, see Ted Drange's "Atheism, Agnosticism, and Noncognitivism." I have deliberately simplified the issue here in order to make a point.

140 comments:

Edward T. Babinski said...

How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?

To you I’m an atheist. To God, I’m the Loyal Opposition.

Woody Allen

--------------

I give blood. I volunteer my organs. I donate to charities. I return my shopping cart. I never needed religion to puppeteer me through life and tell me how to feel about gays, abortion, and capital punishment or how to raise my kid. When people ask me what I am, I say Earthling.

William P.O’Neil, “Playing the God Card,” Chicago Tribune, Feb. 10, 2000

------------

THE THREE WORST THINGS ABOUT BEING AN ATHEIST

1) No one to talk to when you come.

2) Having to scream, “Blind chance!” when you stub your toe.

3) Not being able to return all the “damned to hells” you receive from folks who say you are.

Edward. T. Babinski

Jim Perry said...

Speaking of dispiriting, even futile, discussions...

There's a lot to be said on this topic, and it has been. Part of the problem is that this is not a matter of inventing new terms to cover philosophical positions but trying to address slightly differing uses of the same term by various groups.

In terms of a "movement", I think the broader term should be favored as more inclusive. Much the same situation applies to many other groups. e.g. radical feminists within the broader feminist movement, or of course fundagelical Christians within the broader Christian community. In those cases as well the more restrictive element insist on being "truer", and also to a degree match the popular outside perception.

Bradley Bowen said...

The main difference between "atheists" is about whether the concept of "God" is clear, meaningful, and coherent. If one takes the position that the concept is unclear, meaningless, or incoherent, then the statement "God exists" cannot be either affirmed or denied. So, I prefer a more generic definition of "atheist": someone who REJECTS the claim that "God exists". This may be because the claim is thought to be meaningless or incoherent or because one thinks the claim is simply false.

Jeffery Jay Lowder said...

Ed -- very funny!

Jim and Brad -- I could be wrong, but I think common usage favors the "atheism = belief that God does not exist" definition. If that is the case, then insisting that "atheism" be defined in a nonstandard way is an uphill battle. It isn't clear to me what the benefits of that battle are. Etymological purity? Historical consistency? I think the value proposition of fighting that battle is, well, exaggerated. In my opinion, a more prudent use of our limited time and energy would be to use words in accordance with popular usage and find something more important to argue about.

Jim Perry said...

I'm not arguing about it; I've been there and done that, though in my view the broader definition is more prevalent among informed atheists for reasons including Brad's observation about incoherence. This also seems reflected in reasonably informed sources such as wikipedia.

If we're going by common usage, then we'll just have to accept that atheists are those who dogmatically reject the existence of any sort of God, out of orneriness at best, or more likely distaste for moral standards. By whatever definition, modern "atheism" represents the reclaiming of a traditionally pejorative label.

Jeffery Jay Lowder said...

Jim--

Two comments:

(1) You write, "the broader definition is more prevalent among informed atheists." Here you are using the word "atheists" in a statement that (I assume) is intended to function as part of an argument for preferring one definition of atheism over another. Do you see the problem?

(2) You write, "If we're going by common usage, then we'll just have to accept that atheists are those who dogmatically reject the existence of any sort of God, out of orneriness at best, or more likely distaste for moral standards." I agree that common usage probably does go beyond the narrower definition. What that shows, I think, is that there is a good reason for not blindly accepting a definition on the basis of common usage. Perhaps we need a modified procedure where we start with common usage and then strip out the obviously derogatory and ad hominem components.

Bradley Bowen said...

It is not clear to me that common usage favors the "atheism = belief that God does not exist" definition. Aren't Kai Nielsen, AJ Ayers, and Anthony Flew usually called "atheists"? Common usage is not determined by dictionary definitions but by actual linguistic practices.

Like many atheists, I'm not a big "joiner", so the value or importance of trying to change the way others use the term "atheist" does not seem of great importance to me. I would be more inclined to put up a fight over the meaning of words like "liberal", "conservative", "socialist", or "feminist". The standard definition of "atheist" is at least approximately correct, in my view.

On the other hand, the distinction between those people who think that the statement "God exists" is false and those people who think that this statement is meangingless, incoherent, or too unclear to be evaluated is an important distinction, whether or not the term "atheist" covers both groups of people. Although it may be tempting to see the later position as a recent and novel one (coming out of logical positivism and the linguistic bent of 20th century philosophy), the basic objection is quite old, and of great significance.

In both Eastern and Western religious traditions, one can find references to the transcendence, infinity and ineffability of God (or the divine being). From a religious point of view this raises the question: Can I, a mere limited and finite human being, comprehend the infinite and transcendent ground of all being?
If one wants to maintain the infinity and transcendence of God, then a negative answer to this question is quite tempting. But in that case, the word "God" appears to be odd and unique when compared to other words, like "dog", "tree", and "rock". If finite human beings are incapable of accurately experiencing or comprehending God, then the meaning of the word "God" is highly problematic.

A fundamental problem with religious viewpoints is the contradictory nature of the concept of "God". On the one hand, believers want a God worthy of worship and awe, and this pushes them towards a concept of God as transcendent, infinite, and incomprehendable. On the other hand, believers want a God who is loving and helpful to them, who will intervene to protect their safety and interests, like a kind and loving parent, and this pushes them towards a concept of God as immenent, finite, and comprehendable. But God cannot be both transcendent and immenent, both infinite and finite, both incomprehendable and comprehendable.

The problem of evil, raised in the ancient book of Job, and used to great effect by David Hume, pushes on this logical contradiction contained in religious viewpoints. If God is perfect, then why is the world so imperfect? One typical response is that God is beyond human understanding, but those who take this position cannot consistently maintain that God is a just and loving person. Another response is that the imperfection was introduced by the Devil and human sin, and that God is working to repair the resulting damage, but those who take this position cannot consistently maintain that God is infinite in power and knowledge - they turn God into a finite Superman.

Jim Perry said...

Jeff(?):

For "atheists" in my statement substitute "those who identify themselves as atheists", where by "informed" I intend to rule out those who have not investigated the issue significantly. Your problem in trying to force a more restrictive meaning is that you're doing so in the face not only of the traditional pejorative meaning on the one hand, but a widely-accepted contemporary philosophical meaning on the other, as witness your citation of Martin, Flew, Smith, etc. Your effort is not only to claim a label for yourself, but to wrest it away from others who are and have been actively using it.

Personally, I am aware enough of the complexities involved that I avoid unqualified use of any label in any case.

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As for morality: murder, deceit, theft, and all of the other "evils" that men do have always been anti-social and aberrant behaviors, therefore it is not necessary to be godly to be good. The golden rule applies to me as much as to any god-fearing person. There is no plan out there by a Planner. I can see only it is only a theory because I have seen no evidence to the contrary. If there is one, then we could call him Zeus for we invented him, too, and he is as real as God, then. There is too much myth involved in the god theory for me to think there could be one.
As for after death: Nothingness. So? No heaven, no hell, what is hell but the fire which is most feared by humans? What comparatively is heaven--angels with harps, everyone sitting at the feet of this almighty which, even after entering heaven, you must abjectly worship--which is your reward for crawling around abjectly worshiping in your lifetime? What's heaven without rock and roll?
Going good and doing evil: Godly people do good deeds because God wants them to, and they will be rewarded in the "afterlife." Ungodly folks do good for the deed and the person with nothing in it for him/her. I am as capable and as willing to "lay down my life for my friends" as any hypocrite who expects something. Even Jesus if he existed went through crucifixion because he was told he would rise again in three days, so what's a few hours of agony? Give me a break. If Jesus really was a hero he would have done all this for people, not for his "father" with nothing in it for himself, no ultimate reward.

Andrea Lawrence-Stuart said...

With all the arguments pro-gods or anti-gods I learned atheism in its truest sense as a child, back in the 40s when it wasn't fashionable. I was in at least 20 foster homes and two or three children's homes, and in each of these homes I was forced to attend their church or Sunday school. None of these Christian churches and denominations agreed with each other,and that was my first clue that we created God, not vice versa. I liked reading the Bible as I liked reading Grimm's Fairy Tales, Homer's Iliad, etc., but it was all the same to me. Of course if a kid like me questioned "God's" existence the answer was a paddling, caning or whipping and threats of brimstone and fire. It still didn't get any god in my head. I wasn't capable of it. Too many contradictions. If there was, he was a fiend playing some kind of masterful game which allegedly began with only good in the world but in fact there had to be evil, because most humans think absolutist. We created this super creator to control others. I was beaten up quite a bit so most of the time I kept my mouth shut, because I didn't want to lose my teeth at an early age. These were Christian families. Sometimes I would go along with the game just to stop the beatings, but inside I was true to myself. As I grew older and read more--i.e., Darwin, Bertrand Russell, Abraham Maslow, I saw nothing unreasonable about Darwin's discoveries, natural selection from a cosmic scale down into the realms of microscopic universes. It in itself is a miracle to me. I discovered that one other reason I could not be a Christian was, as Bertrand Russell said, Jesus believed (and threatened his followers and anyone who didn't like his preachings) in Hell and Damnation. That is illogical.

As for morality: murder, deceit, theft, and all of the other "evils" that men do have always been anti-social and aberrant behaviors, therefore it is not necessary to be godly to be good. The golden rule applies to me as much as to any god-fearing person. There is no plan out there by a Planner. I can see only it is only a theory because I have seen no evidence to the contrary. If there is one, then we could call him Zeus for we invented him, too, and he is as real as God, then. There is too much myth involved in the god theory for me to swallow any more than I would arsenic.
As for after death: Nothingness. So? Peace, no heaven, no hell below us, above us only sky--imagine! what is hell but the fire which is most feared by humans? What comparatively is heaven--angels with harps, everyone sitting at the feet of this almighty which, even after entering heaven, you must abjectly worship--which is your reward for crawling around abjectly worshiping in your lifetime? What's heaven without rock and roll, zydeco and Mozart?
Doing good and evil: Godly people do good deeds because "god wants them to, and they will be rewarded in the "afterlife." Ungodly folks do good for the deed and the person with nothing in it for him/her. I am as capable and as willing to "lay down my life for my friends" as any theist hypocrite who expects something. Even Jesus if he existed went through crucifixion because he was told he would rise again in three days, so what's a few hours of agony? And he didn't rise--there are too many contradictions to that tale. He was a great guy, but did not rise again. Give me a break. If Jesus really was a hero he would have done all this for people, with nothing in it for himself, but a peaceful death, no ultimate reward.

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